Colaborare / unire Comunitati Mandriva in cazul unui fork.
Va rog sa dati cu parerea despre mesajul de mai jos. Eu personal sunt de acord, as dori sa se anunte cei care, teoretic, ar dori si o colaborare (translatori, testeri, packageri, etc) sa avem o estimare cam ce poate comunitatea noastra.
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This is a message from LuismaGo, from Blogdrake.net:
\"I think we are going through the hardest part in the life of Mandriva, even harder than when Mandrake broke and the Club had to be brought up. At least, there was no desktop distribution that could meet Mandrake during that crisis, and the Community (yes, with upper \"C\") responded in the right way: supporting Mandrake economically when the Club was created as a financing method.
Now there is no possibility of economic recovery, if we consider the rumors coming from the company itself. Mandriva company has made several moves all over the place: the purchase of Conectiva, using a weird name to the distro, buying Lycoris, changing the names of the releases, switching to an annual release, firing Gaël Duval, switching back to two releases by year, believing that Spring happens at the same time in France and in the rest of the world, dissolution of the Club, giving diversity of versions of the same distribution that confuse users (One, Free, Powerpack), major restructuring changes like the one that made Adam Williamson leave, many CEO changes, payments suspensions, company bankruptcy and main developers fleeing the company.
The current situation is that the distro is abandoned by the company until the next board meeting decides what should be done about it. But even if the decision is made to move forward with the distro there is one problem: the developers have left.
I think that none of those that belong to the communities have now the same knowledge of how developments that were done by them work, and although this can be fixed (the source code is there to be studied) it takes time, and it may take a long time. We need them if we want to create the Community fork of Mandriva, so here are the two possibilities that can co-exist:
1.- Mandriva-company creates a foundation, just like Fedora, and gives the Community certain tools to enable the development of a base that they can later polish and then use it for their servers distributions.
2.- The community continues on its own and creates a distribution, following the CentOS model, identical (or almost) with the Mandriva-company one but with another name. This would be the fork, strictly speaking.
Although the first option seems easier due to the support in infrastructure received by the company, we have to bear in mind that without the current developers, who obviously won\'t cooperate with the company that kicked them off, the base distribution will be very poor and can take a long time to go back to the level of the current distro, and the level could even get worse instead of improving.
The second option is more feasible but only if the current developers have a job that allows them to cooperate as part of the community and open the path so that the community gets involved as fast as possible.
Anyway, both options need the Community to get involved in the development. The first thing to do is to change the concept of Community. It should not be a simple \"alliance\" between MUGs or separated groups. The Community should be all of us, the users of the current Mandriva-distro, some more active than others, but not separated in independent groups. We all know that not everybody can, want or know how to cooperate, but that level of involvement is not necessary. All that\'s necessary is a critical mass that will be involved in development, translation, tests and bugs hunting or just propaganda.
We have to forget about MIB, MUD or BDK-packagers. Now we can\'t go on our own. Now all the participants of these projects have to stop being a complement to the packages that Mandriva provides, but they will have to provide the packages that Mandriva provided, and not separately but as a single one homogeneous Community. Therefore a key aspect is to count on the help of the current developers who left. Their leadership and their knowledge is what that can unify all this. And, of course, there is still a lot to discuss about how to finance all this.
I finish with a third option: the current developers of Mandriva end up working for another distro and they integrate the MCC and all the Drakes in it. I think that the solution here is pretty clear for all of us.\"
We are interested in the views of all of you to act accordingly.
Comments
As fi interesat sa particip
As fi interesat sa particip ca si tester in principal si poate ca in viitor o sa ma invat sa fac si pachete cum trebuie.
--
Ghidul Mandriva
Configurarea PPPoE
mai domnilor , io nu ma bag
mai domnilor , io nu ma bag hotariti voi , dar ....
Patcho Ramos era BIG BOSS pe BLOGDRAKE ( mandriva spania ) si ptr ca el era seful mare pe mandriva spania asa o hotarit el ca
tre sa fie reprezentatul tutror vorbitorilor de limba spaniola ...., ( in MUG)....in ceea ce ma priveste ( adicatelea tehnica si packaging )
am vazut citeva pachete facute de blogdrake si pot sa va zic doar asta :
MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
astia is sub genunchiul broastei ....hai sa vorbim serios .... rusii (edu-mdv), turcii, nemtii , olandezii, braziliani, mib, grecii, etc ok
as avea curaj sa instalez pachete de la oricare dintre astea , dar in "campionatul" asta pachetele bdk is cam sub ultimul loc.....
Eu visez o mandriva comunitara din 2006, cin da plecat Duval, deci ce vreau sa zic cu asta , ca blogdrake sau altul ptr mine e indiferent
imi ajunge daca va exista o mandriva ( sau care ii va fi numele) care sa nu depinda deloc de Mandriva .SA
Eu o vad asa , Wobo e cel mai tare pe piata , ( are structura, are men power, are medii , are server ptr build etc) dar el e de genul
**EU SI EU SI AI MEI SI NEMTII MEI , SI IN ULTIMA INSTANTA IARASI EU......**
Adica un pic cam "lapusneanu" ptr gustul meu (din pacate cam asta este reputatia lui peste tot...) .. acuma vin spanioli si se organizeaza
si chiama pe toti "la ei" , wobo nu va accepta sa fie sub papucul nimanui....asta-i sigur, si nu stiu cum o sa reactioneze celelalte
comunitati , inca n-am vorbit cu nimeni , dar o sa ma informez sa vad "din ce parte bate vintul".
Stiu din "birfe " ( deci nimic oficial), ca MIB si MCNl s-au vorbit intre ei si au decis sa astepte 17 a lunii ....
keep in touch.
Unix is user-friendly. It’s just very selective about who its friends are
Parerea lui Wobo &
Parerea lui Wobo & MandrivaUser.de, republicata aici cu permisiunea lui:
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Of course such kind of discussions have been going on for weeks now in
most forums I've seen (and the other addressees will surely agree).
These discussions were unavoidable given the situation and the
reactions of the Mandriva management to the situation wrt the user
community. At MandrivaUser.de we had a similar discussions being
triggered by an article I wrote in our community magazine.
As for the blogdrake posting you are referring to, I do not agree to
some of the opinions in the first part of the posting but the general
assessment is clear and from the discussions in MandrivaUser.de I get
the impression that there is an agreement on the following points at
MandrivaUser.de:
1. As it seems there is not much interest in the Mandriva leading
powers to continue the Mandriva Linux distribution in the way we knew
it - the people who actually designed and formed and "made" the
distribution during the previous years are all gone by now. So, a
continued "Mandriva Linux" under the reign of the Mandriva management
seems to be a no-go at this point.
2. A user community based fork seems to be a first class choice at
first sight. But then, at closer look, we should recognize that these
"combined forces of the user communities" are not really there.
Each user community has their packagers who are working in their way,
which has been in compliance with the Mandriva Linux rules, but
sometimes not. Opinions about that are very different and there have
been some discussions in the past as well. So I think there will be no
real collaboration int the meaning of the blogdrake posting unless
there is a organisational leading group who decides on such
discussions and individual opinions. Who would that be, who would be
accepted as such leaders and will their decisions be accepted by all
others? We have seen some unpleasant proof of the very difficult
nature of this issue.
This issue is important, it is not tricial by all means, but the
solution is not impossible. A solution, in other words: organising a
"User Community Union" where the organisations are equal partners is
essential.
3. The second problem of a user community based fork is the expertise.
Packagers are not developpers (in most cases), they have no real
experiance nor expertise how to build a distribution. Most people in
my organisation are quite aware that maintaining the distribution
means to have at least a large part of the cooker community aboard.
They could bring in the expertise which the user community has not.
And they could bring in the knowledge and developing skills to
continue the distribution.
4. The infrastructure (svn, mailing lists, rules, documentation,
committing rules, buildnodes, etc.) is essential to a distribution.
Adding to this the experience of organising the development and
roll-out of a distribution - both are not available in the user
community. But they are available in the cooker community.
So, as a conclusion of this, my overall assessment is:
A fork is the way to go, no doubt about that. But it has to be done by
a common project, standing on 2 strong legs:
- the cooker community for developing improvements, maintaining the
distribution, and distributing the release,
- the user community for support, spreading, media relations,
documentation, etc. - in short: everything non-technical.
All this has to be organized and led by a "steering group" which has
the necessary experience in that field and is accepted by all.
In general I would see a good chance for a project of such kind,
adding a strong commercial partner (in the style of Novell/openSUSE or
Red Hat / Fedora) would be a perfect solution and a solution which
would be able to stay, even through unavoidable discussions about
different opinions.
All the above is a mix of the German discussions at MandrivaUser.de as
well as private discussions with leading members of the German
organisation.
Thx for your time.
wobo
MandrivaUser.de
Csabi′s BLOG
Linux registered user # 457717
Eu unul as putea ajuta la
Eu unul as putea ajuta la ceva infrastructura, impachetare si testare.
Iar in legatura cu toata treaba asta, mi-am exprimat pct de vedere pe email. Il copiez si mai joc, for your convenience :-)
Symbianflo, ok, wobo e nasol, exista un personaj mai bun care ar putea "conduce" fork-ul?
Imi plac spaniolii ca oameni, sunt simpatici, dar dpdv tehnic nu am mare incredere in ei. De greci nici nu stiam ca au o comunitate.
De olandezi ce stii?
Emailul:
<< Hello,
As bad as things look now the idea of a fork is good, imho.
So far I personally agree with Wobo on most things. The creation of a leading group is of the essence,
otherwise the chances of actually producing a fork are very slim at best.
First thing to be done is to evaluate what we can do and what we cannot do. To create a board to lead the fork will not be easy,
but we first have to see if there is enough man power to develop (this is critical) and package the distro;
else we could just stop wasting time and migrate towards Fedora/Debian/etc.
This is just a personal opinion and not a general statement on behalf off the Romanian Community.
Our community is currently debating this issue.
Talking about debating, excellent communication between communities is of the utmost importance right now and this "reply to all" thing doesn't look too good.
Can anyone can set up a mailing group/list? I could do it if nobody volunteers.
I'd like to ask a couple of questions that might have been discussed elsewhere, but I am not aware of any of those:
1. How do you feel about joining forces with PCLinuxOS?
2. How about joining forces with Unity Linux?
The above do not seem to me like ideal solutions, but if we cannot get our act together it may be better than nothing. >>
' Zombie: "Thou canst not kill that which doth not live. But you can blast it into chunky kibbles." ' (Quake1 manual, chapter VI, section D, line 676)
La localizarea în limba română.
Nu cred că mai trebuia precizat, eu voi asigura în continuare localizarea în limba română a distribuției, indiferent în ce direcție o va lua.
Mîine, 17 septembrie 2010, are loc adunarea generală a acționarilor și se va decide în ce direcție o va lua Mandriva. Aștept cu nerăbdare verdictul.
Coordonator Mageia Linux România
sunt multe chestii de luat in
sunt multe chestii de luat in considerare.... si wobo a punctat doar citeva ....., in ceea ce priveste infrastructura , cooker, man-power , PR, distributie ,etc
parerea mea ca daca Mandriva SA nu cedeaza ceva la comunitate ( in varianta in care se va face fork-ul), din actuala structura , o vad foarte naspa ...
De packageri buni nu cred ca s-ar duce lipsa ( mai ales ca sunt convis ca v-or contribui si multi care au plecat /concediati din fostii angajati ),
dar ca pe orice distro , comunitara sau nu , sa nu uitam ca coloana vertebrala e kernelul cu tot ce implica asta ......de la hacking la devel TOT,
si din cite stiu eu numai MIB lucreaza cu kerneluri dar nu in devel , ei au un grup de testeri si un ( unul singur) , care lucreaza in kernel...
Si ar mai fi cine isi ia raspunderea sa coordoneze comunitatile astea care sunt atit de diferite de nu se poate .. asta e un post pe care nimeni nu-l va accepta .
Eu as zice sa asteptam miine sa vedem negru pe alb ce decide MandrivaSA, ptr ca daca e adevarat ca intra ALT-Linux ca si majoritar si de aceea
nu e nevoie de personal , atunci jos palaria , stiu ce poate si cum merge ALT, stiu ca multi din voi nu simpatizeaza rusii dar credeti-ma
ALT e guvernamentala in rusia o fi un motiv ptr asta , sper din suflet ca asta sa fie adevarul , daca sunt numai zvonuri nefondate si se dovedeste
ca nu era ALT atunci voi decide in consecinta , dar in nici un caz nu ma voi intoarce sa impachetez ptr mandriva sa.
PS.
oricum ramine propunerea lui Lucian , nu e chiar naspa de tot ...adica unity...( pclos , l-am scos din start io pe 32 de bete nu ma intorc ...)
normal ca vorbesc in nume strict personal.
Unix is user-friendly. It’s just very selective about who its friends are
Pclos e ok, l-am încercat,
Pclos e ok, l-am încercat, îmi place și că e rolling release, poate dacă s-ar uni forțele cu Pclos ar apărea și versiunea pe 64 bits. Unity abia l-am descărcat, mâine îl pun pe hdd să văd ce și cum.
Acum scuze că mă intervin în treburile oamenilor mari, m-aș băga și eu ca tester (la altceva nu mă pricep, deci... :cry: ), sper că m-aș descurca... În orice formulă/ variantă: lipire la Pclos, Unity, alt fork condus de oricine! Dacă totuși e ceva mai complicat decât bănuiesc eu, treceți cu vederea tupeul meu... :shy:
S-auzim de bine!!!
==Those who feel the breath of sadness Sit down next to me Those who find they’re touched by madness Sit down next to me Those who find themselves ridiculous Sit down next to me == http://stressat.blogspot.com/